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Crowdfunding

Discussion in 'Rangers FC News and Chat' started by Campne, Feb 16, 2017.

  1. Campne

    Campne DTB Pub Team

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    Noticed in the press that Hearts fans are crowdfunding works on their stadium. Apparently with fans chipping in they've raised a few million in just a year or so.

    Just wondering, with the much larger fan base we have, couldn't someone set up a company whereby fans could subscribe a voluntary amount per month to a transfer top up fund or some such. If you had 50k fans spending a fiver a month, at the end of each year you have an additional 3mil to spend on the playing squad.
     
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  2. Jonno

    Jonno DTB Addict

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    Club 1872?
     
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  3. Always Blue

    Always Blue DTB Star Player

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    Do we not already have fans giving cash monthly to buy shares which cant be bought. What we need is to go to games and not have empty seats. Give money directly to the club is the best way to support.
     
  4. Steinberger

    Steinberger DTB Reserve Regular

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    Hearts have a different ownership model as it is heading to be fan owned - so any money donated to the club is for the benefit of the club and so effectively to the fans.

    The problem we have is that any money we gift to the club is of benefit to the club and effectively to the shareholders - of which the fans are only a small proportion.

    For this reason, it seems more prudent to give money to the club via something like Club1872 where some of the money will used in a share issue. There you give the club the same amount of money but the fans get more control in return - in addition, for no extra cost.

    At the moment, the stadium work is funded by Kingco soft loans which will be converted into equity at a later stage. I can't see the need to create crowdfunding in addition.

    As for paying for club goods - the money effectively goes to Ashley rather than the club. Buying services and going to games is fine but not easily done for everyone, and any money raised is subject to VAT.

    So it seems best to invest in C1872 or save your money for the share issues and proxy your shares to a larger group. Of course you may need to buy shares to start with to partake, and that money doesn't go to the club but at least it ensures more fan control. The same goes with C1872 until there is a share issue, although half the money is earmarked for good causes.
     
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  5. KPW477

    KPW477 DTB First Team Regular

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    Buy bricks (not the Davie Weir Panel of course), lotto, programmes, rising stars etc etc. There are lots of ways of funding the club.
     
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  6. Always Blue

    Always Blue DTB Star Player

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    Buying shares through a group is of no use to the club. On a new issue the club will of course receive the funds. At present fans are spending on a worthless share holding. Only time will tell but Rangers will never be fan owned although one group could have a reasonable holding of around 10%. At a new issue the directors shares will increase and later I would expect a rights issue.
    Having all the required market qualifications although now retired it may be some time before any listing will be allowed.
    It would be interesting to know what cash given by fans is held and where. I expect this will be a fair amount which at present would be of use to the club.
    A few years ago when I was first on the site I advised against giving cash to others for shares and of course these are now worthless unless traded privately. My view has not changed and it is to some extent a pointless discussion as those who want to be in charge of a large holding will always have a different view to mine. Fans can have a vote and attend meetings but only if they have shares in their own name otherwise their view may not be that of the group as whole.
    At present I presume fans receive a regular update on their cash position.
    It is something that only time will tell and there will always be different views but I expect the current board to be in charge for many years unless another buyer comes along.
     
  7. bluegenes

    bluegenes DTB Supporter

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    Bought a brick coupla years back,and would prefer some form of similar direct funding ..not keen on the share thing.
     
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  8. KilBill

    KilBill DTB First Team Sub

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    Herats are a two bob outfit, so fan ownership for them and the likes of Motherwell is entirely feasible. Rangers are a world class brand, albeit hampered by playing in a Mickey Mouse league. Rangers appeal is world-wide, that's why Ashley coveted our merchandising. The value of our club, in relative terms, is probably as low as its ever been, but the main ownership is still spread over quite a few rich individuals/ companies. The best Club 1872 can hope for is probably a 10% share and a seat on the board. The business model for Scottish football is a basket case, as long as it remains so, fans will have scorch marks on their pockets. Even Savco, with all their Champions League riches, are grateful for the millions in State aid they receive every time Hampden needs repainting, the public land for peanuts they've had, to develop their commercial interests, dodgy loans from the Co-op,and the interests of their main shareholder being beyond scrutiny in the ROI/Gibralter/Panama . . . . . .
     
  9. Campne

    Campne DTB Pub Team

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    To be clear, I'm not talking about fans raising money to buy a stake in the club. Fans are and will always be the club's biggest stakeholders, regardless of the shares. I'm talking about raising money on a consistent basis, in order to write the club a cheque on the 1st of July each year (ok, 12th), purely to add to the manager of the day's transfer budget.

    At present we can't compete financially with the tarrier filth, and that's a way to start levelling the pitch.
     
  10. Steinberger

    Steinberger DTB Reserve Regular

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    I think the point you're overlooking is that say the fans raise £3m and give a cheque to the club, there are two ways of doing this, just give the money or give the money in return for equity. In both cases the club get the same amount of money but in the latter case the fans get more control.

    In this case, if the club is worth say 30m, then that would be about 9% more ownership. Now this is what Kingco are effectively doing as they will be swapping debt for equity.

    If we did that every year we'd eventually own more than 50% of the club. Or the club could get the same money, and the fans get zero shares. Which is best?
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    BTW another side effect would be the diluting of influence of Ashley and the other undesirable shareholders.
     
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  11. KPW477

    KPW477 DTB First Team Regular

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    Would the offer of equity not have to be made to all existing shareholders (even Ashely) and not just the select few.
     
  12. Steinberger

    Steinberger DTB Reserve Regular

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    Not if you pass a similar resolution to the previous one that failed. I can't see the problem with the equity being offered to everyone.

    In the case that they all take it up including Ashley, then you multiply the amount the club has to spend by about 10. The fans wouldn't increase percentage shareholding, but crucially it wouldn't be diluted.

    Seems to me to be another reason to swap money for equity instead of swapping money for nothing - it would give Rangers much more money and protect the fans share holding.
     
  13. exthreepa

    exthreepa DTB First Team Regular

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    What Weight was it
     
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  14. bluegenes

    bluegenes DTB Supporter

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    Before ot after the engraving?
     
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  15. Always Blue

    Always Blue DTB Star Player

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    Same as a brick and half a brick. Actually if we sold half bricks at the wall the club could double the profits.
     
  16. Lochy

    Lochy Club 1872 Contributor

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    We could also have had had lots of baths on Edmiston Drive full of yon free water if we had found five men to fill them!
     
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  17. WL.GER4EVER

    WL.GER4EVER DTB First Team Regular

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    Is crowdfunding , not just modern day equivalent of begging ? Hopefully the share issue will happen later in the year , if certain parties remember to vote .
     
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